Speaker 2: 0:05

Use the holy water. This is one more. He'll never sleep in again.

Speaker 1: 0:36

Darnation.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Hello and welcome to the Lowdown on the Plus Up, a podcast where we look at everyone's favorite theme park attractions, lands, textures and novelties. We talk in over about and through our week's topic and then, with literally no concern for practicality, safety or economic viability, we come up with ways to make them better. My name is Kelly McCubbin, columnist for the theme park website Boardwalk Times, and with me, as always, is Peter Overstreet University, professor of Animation and Film History in Northern California.

Speaker 3: 1:18

They were so proud of this they put that in the newspaper ads.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Yes, and one of the things that I read about this show that they were doing is that so when we talk about Universal Studios and at this point it's starting to become more of a fully fledged theme park yes, we have to talk about Jay Stein.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yes, please, let's talk about Jay Stein. So so Jay Stein is the at this point, the creative head of Universal Studios. He also seems pretty insane. Yes, when you compare the staffs of Universal Studios to the staffs of Disneyland, you find a really interesting comparison. The staffs of Disneyland, they're geniuses, brilliant people, thoughtful, inspirational. The staff of Universal Studios is a mob. Yeah, they are cutthroat. They will fire you. If you like, breathe funny.

Speaker 1: 2:27

Yep.

Speaker 2: 2:28

And Jay Stein is right at, at this point, the top of the ladder here. Yeah, and one of the things that you are all, if you work for Jay Stein at this point, the thing that you are trying to achieve is what's known as a J-bang.

Speaker 3: 2:45

Okay, okay, please explain what is a J-bang. So a J-bang is— Folks, this is still an appropriate show for kids.

Speaker 2: 2:55

It is absolutely. It's not what you're thinking. A J-bang was how Jay Stein would describe an experience where he has a quick, sudden emotional kind of rush and so you, you know, turn the corner on the tram tour and Norman Bates comes running at you. If it actually thrills you, that's a Jay bang. Okay, that's fair. So Jay Stein is one night watching a TV show called the Curse of Dracula Aha, which is a made-for-TV Dracula movie starring Michael Norrie. Oh, wow. There's a point in the movie where Dracula turns to the screen and growls like an animal, and something about this scared Jay Stein, Whoa. And he went to work the next day and said we need a show that has that moment in it. Hmm, Okay. So his entire theory about the Castle Dracula show is I want a show that has a moment where Dracula growls at the audience and it freaks them out.

Speaker 3: 4:08

He did, he did, they did, yeah, they did do that. I saw that show twice. Yeah it was. I got to sit in the front row because I really wanted to get pulled out of the audience and get turned into a little Frankenstein.

Speaker 2: 4:21

Right, because part of this was it was still a makeup show to an extent. Yeah, and you had dinner with do a little Frankenstein, Right, because part of this was it was still a makeup show to an extent.

Speaker 3: 4:25

Yes, it was Yep, and you had dinner with Dracula, yeah. So you usually had like a boyfriend girlfriend pulled out of the audience to become the bride and Frankenstein, right, it would make up a kid to look like Eddie Munster, basically, yeah. But I'm curious about this J-Bang thing because, well, who isn't? Because, well, who isn't? Because we have to talk about the Phantom of the Opera for a minute.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Yeah, in the show. You mean In the show. It's not an animatronic Phantom of the Opera, it is a theatretronic Phantom of the Opera.

Speaker 3: 4:57

Thank you. Yes, it is a theatretronic Phantom of the Opera, but it was voiced by someone who was very special and who had just had a very well-rated, if not insane, hollywood special. I'm talking about the immortal Paul Lynde.

Speaker 2: 5:19

Yes, it was for a brief period, voiced by Paul Lynde. Yes, they got rid of it after a while, because people recognized it too easily.

Speaker 3: 5:28

Two weeks, yeah, two weeks, you know, because as soon as the Phantom I mean the Phantom looks like the Phantom of the Opera, yeah, but like Paul Lynn, silence mortals. I am the Phantom of the Opera, eric, and you're like, oh God, because he had just done a Hollywood special with Margaret Hamilton. Yeah, witchy poo from you know HR, puffin stuff, yeah and Kiss. The whole premise, I guess, is Paul Lynde is like I guess it's because of his association with Bewitched, oh yeah, because he was Tabitha's uncle who was a witch, and so I guess it was like that's Paul Lynn, I'm the Queenie Witch, and here's the witchy poo, and then here's the Wicked Witch of the West and here's the kiss. I mean, all that's missing is the Osmonds, you know. But I think it was because of that popularity of that Halloween special, because it was very highly rated on television.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Yeah, which is funny because I've seen it and it's terrible, it's awful.

Speaker 3: 6:30

I think it was highly rated because it was like one of the first times Kiss was on screen. Yeah, that's, probably true so everybody's like we've got to watch Kiss. We have to Detroit Rock City yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:39

Well, they were very mysterious back then.

Speaker 3: 6:41

It was like people just didn't know what was going on and we hadn't been subjected yet to Kiss versus the Phantom of the Parn. So isn't that right, starman? So there is audio of Paul Lynde that is still available on the internet. You can actually hear it. We may have actually put that in the prologue of this program here. Yeah, but it's fascinating, but it is from the show. Yeah, they had an animatronic wolfman. It was this huge werewolf that would come out of a crypt. Yeah, they had an extra tall mummy. It was like this weird body extender of a mummy. Yeah, they did a magic trick in which they took an audience member and they put him on the rack and they stretched him out, and that was kind of cool. And Dracula's there, yeah, but it's not really Dracula, dracula, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:34

This is a recurring theme when I was looking into different attractions that related to Dracula. One of the recurring themes is that Dracula seems to take a supporting role in things that have his name on it. Yeah, one of the recurring themes is that Dracula seems to take a supporting role in things that have his name on it.

Speaker 3: 7:48

Yeah, which is really weird. It is weird. What do you do with Dracula to make it a one-on-one experience? I mean, is he going to? It's like, how do you make Dracula an attraction where everybody gets to experience Dracula? You stand in line and you walk up. He goes blah. And he goes blah. Bite your neck, blah. Bite your neck, blah, I bite your neck.

Speaker 2: 8:07

You know, like how do you do that? I was looking at this attraction from it was like 1974, a theme park called the Lagoon Park or something. It's in Salt Lake City, yes, and there was an attraction called Dracula's Castle. It's still there. It was put in 1974. It's still there. It was put in 1974. It's still there and I was watching ride-throughs of it and it's charming, it's super charming. It's an old-style dark ride with a couple of neat effects. It used to have one of those cool rotating tunnels like they used to do on the tram ride. I guess they probably still do on the Universal tram ride.

Speaker 3: 8:39

Yeah, they keep decorating it. It's either, you know, for us it was Steve Austin and Bigfoot walking through it, but then it got turned into the mummy at one point. Then it was an avalanche, or Dante's Peak, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 8:50

But this was like an internal dark ride that had one of those, but so I watched video of it a couple of times. Never saw Dracula once.

Speaker 3: 9:01

He was outside, apparently. I just found a picture of him. I'm looking at the picture right now. He's outside he. I just found a picture of him. I'm looking at the picture right now. He's outside. He's this weird wax figure oh weird, and he looks kind of like a sneering Italian waiter. Yeah, he's like ugh garlic, but there he is, he is there. The interior of this thing is cool. It's got like a demon mouth that you're going through with the spinning tunnel and writing in coffins.

Speaker 2: 9:26

That's kind of cool. I loved like outside that attraction there was a sign that just said it'll scare the yell out of you.

Speaker 3: 9:33

I love that. I know, oh, my gosh, I love that. That is so funny. So we're going to have to go to Lagoon Park in Salt Lake City to go check this out the Lagoon Amusement Park.

Speaker 2: 9:49

Yeah, and this sent me down and I won't get into it today, but it sent me down this whole rabbit hole of attractions designed by this guy who I had never heard of before but his name's Bill Tracy. He started off at Ringling Brothers. He designed floats and window displays for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and then he went into theme parks and it's just dark ride after dark ride after dark ride. I mean he designed like 40, 50 different dark rides, most of them horror based. Wow, at all sorts of parks around the world. The biggest name I saw, the biggest park name I saw, was Kennywood, so he designed something there. Okay, otherwise there are just a lot of small regional parks, but I was like this guy's really interesting. Anyway, that's for a later show. Bill Tracy, ladies, Bill Tracy.

Speaker 3: 10:36

Well, I'd definitely look into that. Yeah, dracula's Castle went through at Universal Studios. Yes, Went through some interesting stories. One of the things I read about the attraction there was a whole article about it in Famous Monsters. Yeah, that's actually really, really fun. One of the things is that they had to try and tie it in with modern audiences in the 80s.

Speaker 2: 11:03

Yeah, people were getting more. This is like 79, 80. 79, 80, which is a weird time for audiences in the 80s. Yeah, this is like 79, 80.

Speaker 3: 11:06

79, 80, which is a weird time for Monsterdom. At this time, what happened was Universal was banking heavily on the success of this new Dracula with Frank Langella. They thought this is going to be our horror version of Superman. You will believe a man can fly as a bat, right. So instead we're going to have this disco sex scene in the middle of it. That just doesn't make any damn sense. Yeah, and Sir Lawrence Olivier as this weird like rabbi character. That is not a very good Van.

Speaker 3: 11:40

Helsing yeah Because he was so sick. Yeah, there's a stunt double who gets impaled in it. Because they had to kill off Van Helsing, because he was just so sick they couldn't finish the film what a shame. But for you Doctor who fans yes who are watching this remake, keep your eyes open for Doctor Seward's assistant sanitarium worker. It's none other than Sylvester McCoy Really Yep. He gets the iconic line in the film. Well, who could possibly want to own Carfax Abbey? And in comes Sylvester McCoy. Count Dracula, and in comes Dracula.

Speaker 2: 12:12

And there he is Sylvester McCoy. That's amazing. I didn't realize that.

Speaker 3: 12:17

Yep, so that's for Kelly. And yeah it totally is. We're both Doctor who nerds as well, yeah and I'm a total unabashed Seventh Doctor guy.

Speaker 2: 12:25

I love Sylvester McCoy.

Speaker 3: 12:26

Yeah, he's fun. Yeah, he's fun. But unfortunately, just before it was released, another film was put out that starred the comedian George Hamilton, called Love at First Bite, yeah, which totally pokes holes in the entire vampire genre. It's pretty funny too, and it's awesome. Children of the night shut up. It's really good. But the problem is it made so good of it. It did such a good job of parieting Dracula because it was cashing in on the success of Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein yeah, like hey, brooks made money with this one. We're going to do a Dracula version of this, yeah, and they did such a good job of poking a hole in everything that everybody knew about Dracula. It actually ruined Dracula, and I mean Dracula as a character.

Speaker 2: 13:22

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:23

As, like you don't you very see very few Dracula movies from that point on. Yeah, for a long time.

Speaker 2: 13:29

Yeah, not till really Coppola.

Speaker 3: 13:31

And it really knocked out Dracula by Universal.

Speaker 3: 13:34

Yeah, they were furious that that had happened and because of that nobody wanted. People thought Dracula was passe. They're like, oh, that's kid stuff, what Count Chocula? And so they tried to spruce up the show by having a modern movie monster come in, the Incredible Hulk Oy, in which he would at some point I don't know what spurs it, but at some point, you know, out of nowhere, they just sprayed some local bodybuilder guy from Muscle Beach or something like that to come out in the trousers and and he would go out and he would grab a plant in the audience and run off. You know, like what are we doing here? Yeah, so they shut that down. Eventually, the Dracula's Castle shut down. It did not last very long. It only lasted for about three or four years.

Speaker 2: 14:17

Yeah, it didn't last long and Jay Stein was never happy with it. He never got the effect that he wanted and, interestingly, he was not a guy that was sentimental or held on to stuff. If he didn't think it was working, he was just going to kill it Perhaps literally, but for some reason he was really hooked on this idea and kept trying to fix it over and over and over again Real quick. Before we get to the end of this attraction, I read this really great story where initially they were trying to, during the climax, have a flock of bats fly over the audience's heads. Yes, but someone came in and said you can't do that, it's dangerous, they're bats.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Yes, but someone came in and said you can't do that, it's dangerous, they're bats. Yeah, so they hired a guy named Ray Berwick to train a flock of little green parrots who they painted black with a special dye. Oh God, after three months of training, it was time for the final run-through. At the proper moment, the cage door lifted, all the parrots flew towards the stage, took a left and flew out of the arena and never came back, jeez. So they started over and they tried to train pigeons instead.

Speaker 3: 15:47

So one of the shows that I saw when I was younger, I remember the pigeons, yeah, and they, you know, they call, you know there's the children of the night and they turn the lights off so you'd hear the flapping.

Speaker 2: 15:57

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:57

And so they like dim the lights down. So you see these flapping things and then, but you know, you had to ignore the fact that there was bird poop everywhere. You know things, but you had to ignore the fact that there was bird poop everywhere. Like oh, it's on my shoulder.

Speaker 3: 16:10

I remember my grandfather used to love wearing these very elegant leather jackets and at one point we walked out of there. He goes we need a bird poop on me. So that ruined my suede, and I think the animatronics were done by. I forget the name of the company it's AKG.

Speaker 2: 16:27

AVG, excuse me. Yes, and they're interesting. So they were formed by an immigrant from Colombia. Yes, his name is Alvaro Villa. He'd been in the US as a student since the 60s. He worked for the space program. He worked for Walt Disney for a little while doing something in animation. I don't think he was an animator, but he did something technically.

Speaker 3: 16:53

Layouters.

Speaker 2: 16:55

And then he invented. We say invented. He came up with a new way to do, animatronics, which was his thing called theatrotronics, and his first two jobs to implement these things. It was basically robotic movement, but using computers of the time, sure, as opposed to using audio signals like what Disney was doing. His first two jobs number one was the Battle of Galactica. His first two jobs number one was the Battle of Galactica. So all of those figures that when you were captured by the Cylons in the Galactica experience on the tram ride, all of those were his theatrotronics. And number two was Castle Dracula. They were great.

Speaker 3: 17:39

Yeah, they were great. I really have fond memories of this thing and I wish that I would have seen it when I was older. Yeah, I was so young when I saw it. I was just more like wow, monsters, I mean, it's Dracula, you don't care. Yeah, you know. And I would probably look at it with a much more critical eye now and kind of go oh God.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Yeah, rough. Yeah, rough Oof, but the pictures I've seen of it like from Famous Monsters and there's not a lot available, so I found a reel that was put out by that company, avg, that just showed sort of a display of what they were doing in the early 80s, so it has a little bit of footage of this show.

Speaker 3: 18:19

Of the werewolf and some of the others.

Speaker 2: 18:21

Yeah, and then the phantom and it looks okay. For that period it doesn't look bad. It also has reels of a bunch of other stuff they were doing like theatrotronic shows for McDonald's. There was a couple of regional shows where they had clearly ripped off the Tiki Room because they were just tropical birds, yep, yep. But yeah, you can see. That's the most footage I've seen from. It was from that reel.

Speaker 3: 18:48

Okay, so I want to take another attraction that does and I'm not going to say that this is a massive theme park attraction, yeah, but this is an attraction that is loved by many people on the East Coast and it does bear mentioning because it does involve Dracula. Okay, and it comes from this world of monster movies and monster kiddom. Yeah, it was started in Connecticut by a young boy who loved to build the Aurora model kits. Yeah, Of.

Speaker 3: 19:16

Dracula, frankenstein and Wolf. Me too, I used to still, I mean up until about 2011, I still had my glow-in-the-dark werewolf still, I mean for up until about 2011,. I still had my Glow in the Dark Werewolf. Yes, I had that one too. I love those. They were so great and those are very collectible, by the way.

Speaker 2: 19:31

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:32

Even the remakes that were put up by Polar Lights, even those go for a lot of money, yeah. But even unboxed and painted ones go well into $100 or more for one of those. Oh, that's awesome, they're great. Yeah, but he wasn't satisfied with that and he came from a. This kid came from a showbiz family. Yeah, his name is Cortland Hull Boy. That name sounds familiar.

Speaker 3: 19:56

It should seem familiar because he was the great nephew of film actor Henry Hull. Okay, aka the werewolf of London. Yeah, a film actor, henry Hull, aka the Werewolf of London.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Yeah, and also Josephine Hull, who played one of the two sweet little old ladies in Arsenic and Old Lace. Oh, and so he came from the showbiz family and his father, so he started building his own monsters. Okay, so he built his own Frankenstein. Yeah, he made them out of clay. And at first he was just using the calendar masks from famous monsters. Yeah, he had saved up and bought a couple and just put a dummy, made the costume. His mom would make the costume and put it up, right, but then people would come over and it was like a Halloween thing. Look at this little display I put up of Frankenstein. Yeah, this little display I put up of Frankenstein Dracula. But then it grew and then it grew and then he got older and he started sculpting the monsters.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Okay.

Speaker 3: 20:49

And then he started building sets around the monsters and his dad built a little what he called his hobby house where he could house these things and build them in yeah, and then people were coming from all over Connecticut to come and see this thing. Yeah, and because of his connections in Hollywood, he would go out to Hollywood and hobnob with all these people. So he knew Vincent Price and he got Vincent Price to record an introduction to his attraction, which is called the Witch's Dungeon. Oh, and then he met June Foray, who became the voice of this witch. That became his main logo. Yeah, but he also had a section on Dracula and it was like a one-man show where you would walk through this museum that was built. It would have the fly, Karras, the mummy, the mole people, the whole thing, and he would have these little tape recorders set up and he would be above you on a sliding panel turning on lights and turning off lights.

Speaker 2: 21:46

Oh, wow.

Speaker 3: 21:47

He's rolling above you, operating everything. So he was like a living animatronic above you. That's awesome. And he kept doing this into the 90s. Wow, and people. Mark Hamill came. I mean it was a thing. Well, eventually it moved and now it's at 103 East Main Street in Plainsville, connecticut. Okay, he got moved into a special location because he's getting up there in age, yeah, and he still maintains it, but he just can't be the guy, he can't be the man behind the curtain anymore.

Speaker 2: 22:18

Yeah, he can't be crawling around. Yeah, he can't.

Speaker 3: 22:19

But they're really great and a lot of the heads are actually based off of the actual life casts from these actors and the Dracula obviously features a lot of the dialogue from the original Dracula. I am Dracula. Yeah, lot of that footage that he got initially came from a record put out by electric lemon records, from an album called Boris Karloff and his friends.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Okay.

Speaker 3: 22:52

And it was an LP you could buy through Famous Monsters. Yeah, and it was Boris Karloff basically narrating little audio clips from all the famous movies.

Speaker 2: 23:01

Oh, okay.

Speaker 3: 23:02

That you could listen to while you're reading your Famous Monsters books. Right, that was put out by Vern Langdon, huh, and so, like Vern has a lot of influence on these attractions, yeah, including another one, yeah, which actually predates Castle Dracula at Universal Studios by about a year. Okay, in Wildwood, new Jersey. Uh-huh, castle Dracula, it's at Nichols Midway Pier.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Okay.

Speaker 3: 23:30

It was established in 1977 by the Nichols family. This family bought a pier on the Jersey shore, yeah, and they put a bunch of roller coasters and thrill rides on it and eventually the roller coaster kind of ran down, but they built the attraction and when you would walk up to it it was this massive castle.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:56

And it was a walkthrough haunted attraction with all these different monsters and Dracula would appear out of nowhere on top of the mantelpiece and yell at you get out of my castle, blah. And the other part of the attraction was a ride in coffins in a river of blood. Oh my God, so dang cool. Yeah, it is very, very much a you know, boardwalk style attraction.

Speaker 1: 24:26

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:26

But the River of Blood was a later addition. Yeah, the castle was built under the foundations of what was the roller coaster that they had torn down. But the dungeon boat ride is when you would float through and you go in through this mouth of a giant skull and this river of blood and go past tortured skeletons and all and I went.

Speaker 1: 24:48

You had me at river of blood, yeah, I don't need to see anything else, I just want to ride a boat in a giant river of blood.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Did they just dye the water or was it so dark? You just they said it was blood. They dyed the water red.

Speaker 3: 25:02

There's pictures of people riding this thing and the water is red. It's like, oh dude, I'm in. And most of the attraction were like kind of like homemade versions of various Disney and wax museum attractions. Lots of torture scenes. You know the rack, Sure, and you know the, but they have like a skeleton with a steering wheel and all the usual stuff. Yeah, but you know what. It's so homegrown.

Speaker 2: 25:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:33

Family. You know, family made and family owned.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:36

That it holds a special place in my heart. I've never been to it. I've only seen footage and photographs from it.

Speaker 2: 25:42

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:43

But man, I'd love to see it.

Speaker 2: 25:45

So I assume it's not there anymore.

Speaker 3: 25:47

No, sadly it burned.

Speaker 2: 25:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:49

It burned down and they are talking about potentially bringing it back. They had a revival about five months ago, yeah, where they brought back some members of the Nichols family and all these fans who had remembered the place. They brought back some of the artifacts that survived the fire and they did this cute little replica on an outdoor stage and they did a tribute to it. But the guy was like, wow, I'm really touched. We're really thinking about maybe doing this again. I'd love to do it. There's just no money in it, because he's like I know the perfect thing let's sell stock and everybody will own a piece of Castle Drive. Oh, I see, ah, okay, never mind, good for you, but yeah, the fire occurred in January 16th 2002. Yeah, so it lasted from 1977 to 2002.

Speaker 2: 26:34

That's pretty impressive.

Speaker 3: 26:36

Yeah, it's a good run. And 1977 to 2002. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, it's a good run, and to this day it is legendary in New Jersey. I actually have a bumper sticker on my Prius of follow me to Count Castle Dracula in Wildwood, new Jersey, just because it's this great picture of Count Dracula pointing like let's go this way, follow me, we're going this way.

Speaker 2: 26:54

You know it's interesting because, in a lot of ways, Follow me, we're going this way. You know it's interesting because in a lot of ways so we are about to see in Florida, an entire land in Universal's Epic Universe theme park based around the classic Universal horror monsters, which is great. I am so psyched about this, Dude. They have the burning windmill.

Speaker 3: 27:18

Yes, they had me there, right. That's like saying we have a river of blood, we have the burning windmill, I'm in.

Speaker 2: 27:25

I'm in. Have you heard about the Dracula restaurant? Yes, yeah, it's a Dracula steakhouse. Yes, and they're actually going to serve the steaks on steaks. Yes, and the waitstaff, they're the revenants. So it's basically a bunch of Renfields giving you your food.

Speaker 3: 27:43

I am so up for this. Yeah, you have. I mean, I'm shaking right now because I really want to go to this thing. I do too. Like more than any no offense to Disney like more than anything else right now, like this is hitting my monster nerd.

Speaker 2: 27:58

Like nobody's business? Oh, totally, and everything I've seen from it looks like it is a very nice balance of very classic monsters with a slightly modern sheen to them, and recently they put out footage of the animatronics. Man, they're amazing.

Speaker 3: 28:11

The Dracula one looks terrifying.

Speaker 2: 28:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:14

It's like they actually made Dracula scary again, right.

Speaker 2: 28:16

It's like, ooh, made Dracula scary again, right. It's like, ooh, which is difficult?

Speaker 3: 28:20

Yeah, so that's what would you call that? A J-bang. That's a J-bang right there you finally get the J-bang snarling like an animal Dracula. But for those who are listening, if you go back some of our episodes, there was an episode that we did not long after a road trip that Kelly and I took together, in which we talked about Bob Gurr.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Yeah, that is, by the way, by far our most listened to episode, by far.

Speaker 3: 28:51

That's cool. Yeah, that's cool as opposed to Golden Horseshoe. So if you haven't listened to our Golden Horseshoe review, that's actually a good episode, folks. We put a lot of work into that one.

Speaker 2: 29:01

Why do you guys hate the Golden Horseshoe?

Speaker 3: 29:03

I did a balloon animal for that episode. You know how hard it is to do those things, especially on audio.

Speaker 2: 29:10

Yeah, on audio. That's really hard to do.

Speaker 3: 29:13

So anyway, when we went on that road trip we got to meet Bob at Garner Holt Productions. We got to hobnob with all these people. Yeah, it was really really cool, nice folks. And on the way in, I don't know if this is where they produced them, but I suspect. And if someone's from Garner I know you're under NDA you probably can't tell us. Yeah, if someone's from Garner, I know you're under NDA you probably can't tell us. But I swear I saw one of these monster animatronics off in the distance, off in the warehouse, under a big piece of plastic. Yeah, they had obviously produced a creature from the Black Lagoon and a Frankenstein animatronic for other projects, or at least for Garner's amusement. Yeah, because Garner likes to collect stuff. Yeah, because Garner likes to collect stuff, you know. But I have a sneaking suspicion. We actually got a tiny little peek at these things because I looked at one and I went. I think that's a werewolf and if it is, it's cool.

Speaker 2: 30:08

Yeah, I mean, it would certainly make sense if you're producing high-quality animatronics kind of anywhere in the world. But animatronics kind of anywhere in the world, but especially in the US. Garner's the first person you think of, Absolutely, so I think that's probably where they came from. We may have been in the room with them already.

Speaker 3: 30:24

Yeah, and it's like, if so, yay, yeah, but I'm really looking forward to this Universal Monsters, epic Universe. Maybe at some point in our future we'll finagle. You know, for those who are listening, for those of you at Universal who understand that at the executive level, who really want to have a good marketing point, we have two sad middle-aged white guys from California who have reintroduced you to the term J-bang, who have reintroduced you to the term J-Bang. By the way, if you visit our Zazzle site along with our, there's Snow on the Manor horn but there's Coke on Main Street t-shirts and magnification shirts. We are going to have the universal J-Bang t-shirts available for you in blood red or Dracula black, but anyhow, Just a picture of Michael Norrie growling on it.

Speaker 2: 31:42

J-bang the Lowdown on the Plus Up is a BoardWalkTimes podcast. At BoardWalkTimesnet you'll find some of the most well-considered and insightful writing about the Walt Disney Company Disney history and the universe of theme parks available anywhere.

Speaker 1: 32:15

Come join us at BoardWalkTimesnet.

Speaker 3: 32:19

You guys think I'm kidding. I am going to make these t-shirts. I have a lot of free time on my hands these days. It's going to happen. You guys think I'm joking.

Speaker 2: 32:28

And we will take the revenue from these shirts and go directly to Epic Universe. We will not pass go. We will not collect $200.

Speaker 3: 32:37

Well, we'll be lucky if we collect $100. But you know, I mean I'll take it. Yeah, but for those of executives, we'd love to see it. But we are really excited. I know I'm really excited. I know Kelly is, but I think for our listeners if you have a chance, check out some of the footage of this thing, what they've got planned out they really seem to have it down. I'm really excited. Yeah, um, we have a friend of the show. Uh, his name is don carson. He's a former disney imagineer. Yeah, uh, I got to meet with him in december and we talked a little bit about it and even he was just like this thing is is insanely cool yeah it looked for what I see of it.

Speaker 3: 33:14

It looks amazing. It looks like they may be topping everything that Disney is doing right now.

Speaker 2: 33:19

And they found a way to reach back into their catalog, reach back into their properties and revitalize something. Revitalize something that people have a lot of love and a lot of nostalgia for. It's so smart.

Speaker 3: 33:35

So for a nod also out to my students, I teach a class about art, experiential design, which is, you know, it's designing theme parks.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Yeah, it's a first grade class, so there's six year olds.

Speaker 3: 33:49

No, no, no, no, no. It's a college course and it's basically it's. You know, it's a concept design class and the project that we do throughout the entire semester is designing a theme park and the different elements to it, and it's a way to teach illustration in a fun, inclusive way. Right Gets people to learn how to work as a team. I had one student, and I'll say her name, laura.

Speaker 3: 34:16

Laura Rogers didn't know quite what she wanted to do with her career and I kind of like pushed her and said hey, you know what? You should probably try this project that we're going to do. We're going to do a design a theme park, so it's going to be six weeks. We're going to do, we're going to do a design a theme park. So it's going to be six weeks. We're going to do this theme park and you might give it a try because it incorporates all the things that you're into. You like horror. You do all these great little bits of horror illustration. You like designing environments. You like theater. Let's try it. Well, the assignment was randomly selected. We literally put themes into a hat. Yeah, lo and behold, out comes Universal Monsters, uh-huh. And then what I would do is have the students randomly select the attraction they were going to design. Yeah, now, sometimes it was a roller coaster, sometimes it was a drinking fountain. Laura got a food court and she also was matched up with a specific Universal Monster.

Speaker 2: 35:06

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:07

So somebody got the Bride of Frankenstein, somebody got the Mole People, somebody got Creature from the Black Lagoon. Laura got the Mummy, okay, and she did these designs for these mastaba-like food pavilions, yeah. So one was the Pharaoh's churros and instead of the crook and the flail it was a pair of churros in this mummy casket's hands and she built it like it was a big dome, so it was the skies of the stars over Egypt, yeah, and it was like half in and half out, kind of like how when you walk in and out of Star Traders at Disneyland, so it's like you're air conditioned but there's lots of big doors so you get a lot of sunlight, yeah, right, and there's a big fountain and there's a sphinxes everywhere and there's places to sit on these stone tables. She designed this whole thing and I worked really hard through all my connections to get Jason Sorrell, who at the time was the creative director of entertainment at Universal Studios, and I asked him could you take some moment to meet with us and, you know, give a critique?

Speaker 3: 36:12

And he said sure, but when he found out what we were working on, he said I can't do that. I said why he goes? Well, I'm kind of under NDA on something and I went. Really you know like suddenly my interest was piqued. He goes and I can't say anything more. You know, universal is very nasty about their NDAs and they really are Again, remember mob.

Speaker 3: 36:39

Yes. So he didn't see it until they finally announced Epic Universe. And then he said, yeah, I can take a quick look. Yeah, and he looked at it and he actually sent a marvelous comment, which is this looks better than some of the stuff we've been seeing. And Laura took some of those designs and she actually got some interviews at theme park firms and I think she actually got some contract work out of that. So I'm very proud of her for tackling this. So we have now reached a point where the sun is about to rise over the children of the damned. We must reach our final part of our show, which is the plus-up. So we didn't do a plus-up during our last show with our special guest.

Speaker 3: 37:28

He was the plus up, he was the plus up, so I don't know who goes next.

Speaker 2: 37:33

I don't know. Do you have something in mind?

Speaker 3: 37:36

It's going to be a river of blood.

Speaker 2: 37:40

It's tough because we've picked a subject matter instead of an attraction or a land or something. So it's like well, what does a plus-up mean? Well, it can kind of mean anything you want it to mean.

Speaker 3: 37:51

Absolutely. I think I know what I'd like to try and do with Dracula, with an attraction of some sort, is to go back to our interactive episode a little bit, yes, and to set up a weekend cruise aboard a schooner yeah, but we repaint it and redecorate it so that way, yes, you're on the schooner, but for you know, it's an overnight trip where you're aboard the Demeter, yeah, and it's a murder mystery slash escape room on a ship and Dracula is aboard with it. So it's a murder mystery slash escape room on a ship and Dracula is aboard with it. So it's like a haunted house mixed with an escape room on board an actual ship out in the water.

Speaker 3: 38:35

Yeah, yeah, that sounds safe. That should work out. But, as we say in the beginning of our program, we have no problems with safety or budget or anything like that. But that's something I would love to see, because Kelly and I saw the Last Voyage of the Demeter and it's not a great film, it's not bad, it was fun. Yeah, it's fun, it was fun, and that's one of my favorite parts of the book actually is this notion of being stuck on a ship with the Prince of Darkness.

Speaker 2: 39:02

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:03

Like ooh, this is cool darkness.

Speaker 2: 39:07

Yeah, oh, this is cool. So if you were on that, if you were doing like a murder mystery or something like that, that was that was based on that assumedly all of the the patrons, yeah would have to be eliminated one by one. Oh, yeah because there's there's an inevitableness. It's like it's like doing a uh uh cthulhu story, like eventually you're all gonna die. There's no way around that titanic yeah, yeah, exactly so what would they do?

Speaker 2: 39:28

So say you get eliminated early, like Dracula gets to you early. What do you do? Do you become a rat? Like what happens.

Speaker 3: 39:34

No, you become a revenant.

Speaker 2: 39:36

Oh, you become a revenant. Okay, you become a revenant.

Speaker 3: 39:48

And then you have other things, that you have cops and robbers, and you know if you're a cop and you suddenly go bad. Oh, this would be great. Like you know, you have to have a buy-in, but at the same time, it still could be really, really fun. Yeah, so, yeah. So that's my plus-up. How about you? Okay?

Speaker 2: 40:05

I've been thinking about so you hear this from Disney a lot that everything starts at story and more and more I'm thinking this is a bad idea. So all of my favorites I'm going to talk about a dark ride here All of my favorite dark rides don't tell a story particularly well that great original scary Snow White ride or Peter Pan, or you know what are the? The cave train in Santa Cruz, oh yeah, the Spelunker's Cave at Six Flags Over Texas. They don't tell stories particularly well, not the fairy tales, right. What they do is they reflect a mood really well, mm-hmm, and they will sort of energize the part of your brain that saw a story previously.

Speaker 2: 41:04

Sure, and say, hey, you remember this bit, remember this bit, but they don't actually tell a story previously. Sure, and say, hey, you remember this bit, remember this bit, but they don't actually tell a story particularly well. And I think this may be a whole other conversation, but I think this may be a mistake that theme parks are making right now as they're trying to tell really coherent stories in a single attraction. But I agree, what I'm getting at is that what I Joe Rohde, would have our heads for saying that.

Speaker 3: 41:24

I know, is that what I, joe Rohde, would have our heads for saying that?

Speaker 2: 41:26

He would, and I love the guy.

Speaker 3: 41:27

I do too, but we can hear him coming yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:32

Rattle, rattle, rattle, rattle. But what I would like to do is to do a moody, greatest hits dark ride through the Hammer Dracula film. Hell, yeah, I'm in it. So we just, you know, lots of Christopher Lee, lots of Peter Cushing, animatronics, you know, and you go all the way through. So you know, you start at horror of Dracula. Maybe you get that final scene with the candelabra and the curtains coming down. Yeah, and you know, you do Brides of Dracula, you do Dracula, prince of Darkness. You're just slipping through. You get, you know scars and taste the blood of Dracula. You.

Speaker 3: 42:13

You drink the filth, you drink the filth.

Speaker 2: 42:20

I want to be in a dark ride where someone yells you drink the filth at me. This is what I want in my life. And, of course, you end up spiraling out to Dracula, ad 72.

Speaker 3: 42:33

And Satanic Rites of Dracula and.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Satanic Rites of Dracula, where the band Stoneground plays a number for you at the end and everyone's wearing white satin suits and stuff.

Speaker 1: 42:49

And.

Speaker 2: 42:49

Christopher Lee's refusing to speak.

Speaker 3: 42:53

I don't want to be a part of this film One. You know, I want to plus up your plus up. All right, you go for it. Yeah, okay, so we had another episode where we talked about shooting galleries. Yes, but we mostly focused on the firearms aspect we didn't really talk about like Buzz Lightyear and the Toy Story, you know light-sensitive laser thing. Wouldn't it be cool as a plusup if it was a reverse shooting gallery, meaning the creatures that—so you go through your ride.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:35

In a lot of those films Dracula actually mind-controls bats. I think it's in Dracula, prince of Darkness, where he's actually controlling a bat to remove a crucifix from a young busty maiden's neck and we see her wonderful décolletage beneath this crucifix as this ridiculous rubber bat comes in and yanks it off.

Speaker 2: 43:59

It's so ridiculous it might as well be a Jean Rollin film.

Speaker 3: 44:01

So yeah, but wouldn't it be cool if you had other creatures of the night and other things that actually, whenever you have the red eyes staring at you, they're actually shooting beams at you? Okay, and you have like a reader, like you're riding on the cart and the only way to avoid getting your blood sucked by the gaze of Dracula.

Speaker 2: 44:30

He's doing all sorts of air quotes right now.

Speaker 3: 44:32

I totally An eyeball pointy things.

Speaker 2: 44:35

Yeah, pointy, eyeball fingers.

Speaker 3: 44:37

But the gaze of Dracula. You get electronic blocking crucifix, so you're trying to block the laser beams with the crucifix.

Speaker 1: 44:46

So you got people waving their hands around furiously with this crucifix, so you're trying to block the laser beams with the crucifix, so you got people waving their hands around furiously with this crucifix.

Speaker 3: 44:51

But you get to points where it's like here I am. I'm Dracula. Hold up the crucifix. You have to have faith to make it work.

Speaker 2: 45:00

What's the repercussions if you don't do it fast enough?

Speaker 3: 45:04

You lose points. Like I said, it's like Buzz Lightyear, but instead of gaining points by finding that one little hole in the wall where you can shoot and get 10,000 points, you're trying not to get zapped. Yeah, so you're using it to block the laser beams going. No, no, but if you don't do it, you lose points from your car.

Speaker 2: 45:24

Which is you losing blood?

Speaker 3: 45:25

Yeah, so it's you losing blood. So you actually have these little digital meters that have bubbling blood and it goes a little bit further and it goes down and you have Van Helsing. Look out, marty, it's getting too low. So Van Helsing is played by Christopher Lloyd. Yeah, I'd take it. Biff Tannen is Renfield.

Speaker 1: 45:49

You know, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 45:51

I don't make the things, I just think them up.

Speaker 2: 45:55

If your points get low enough, you become a revenant. So when you go out to see the picture that inevitably is at the end of every ride, the picture of you in the ride there's just flies.

Speaker 3: 46:09

The blood is the life. So before we sign off, once again, our tribute is to David Skoll and, if you are interested in learning more, we talked a little bit about the lore and the history of Dracula.

Speaker 3: 46:26

I would highly recommend going to Amazon or your favorite bookseller and purchase copies of some of his books, and here's some that I would like to recommend. One is Something in the Blood, the untold story of Bram Stoker, the man who wrote Dracula. Yeah, and that's a great biography of Brahm, written by David Scull. He also wrote a book called the Monster Show, which is an overview of horror and its effect on Americana. Uh-huh Hollywood Gothic, which is a great tale of how the 1931 movie Dracula was made and all of the perils and pitfalls thereof. And then V is for Vampire, which is a guide to everything undead. It's more encyclopedic and it covers everything from London After Midnight to Dracula vs Frankenstein.

Speaker 2: 47:17

Okay.

Speaker 3: 47:18

The bad 1971 film. Yeah, he has a book on Halloween. I mean, he is very prolific. And lastly, dark Carnival, which is a biography of filmmaker Todd Browning. It was his last project he was trying to finish. Yeah, this coffee table book about the great director and his insane life. It is quite a read. So I know he has some family members who still benefit from the sale of his books. So if you have a chance and if you have an interest in monster movies, I cannot recommend these books enough. And so that's my little love note to David. So thank you for all the inspiration.

Speaker 2: 47:55

All right. So before we sign off, what's your favorite Dracula film Number one, the number one Dracula.

Speaker 3: 48:04

Good heavens, you're putting me in a corner here. Yeah, I actually think my favorite dracula film is the bbc version that was done. It was a mini series, yeah, and it was done roughly about the same time that doctor who's Tom Baker's Doctor who was being produced, because a lot of the same sound cues and sound effects are being used in it. But it stars Frank Finlay as Dr Abraham Van Helsing, yeah, and Louis Jourdan as Dracula, yeah, and it's actually for a made-for-TV movie. It's actually quite terrifying. It scared the heck out of me when I was a kid. Yeah, it's great, and, don't get me wrong, I love the Christopher Lee films, but if you want a Dracula movie that really got under my skin, that's the one. Not because it's close to the book, not because of the special effects. That's the one that actually really scared me. Yeah, and I love Dracula films. I mean, I'll even watch Dracula Meets Billy the Kid. Sure, you know. So, yeah, how about you?

Speaker 2: 49:17

If we count the Nosferatu films I would say maybe the Herzog Nosferatu.

Speaker 3: 49:24

If we don't count the Nosferatu films, oof, it's kind of hard to top Kinski's mouth breathing. Yeah, I've got to tell you.

Speaker 2: 49:36

If we don't count those, I might go with Guy Maddin's Dracula Pages from a Virgin's Diary oh, that's cool which is one of the few films that actually does have Quincy Morris doing the deed, and it's just so wackadoodle, weird and fascinating. I just love it.

Speaker 3: 50:01

I think my number two is actually Andy Warhol's Dracula. Just to hear Udo Kears shout out the blood of these whores is killing me.

Speaker 2: 50:10

By the way, oh, one thing, that Dracula pages from A Virgin's Diary has that no other film I've ever seen? No other Dracula film I've ever seen has and this is directly from the book. Dracula actually does bleed money from it, because in the book Dracula gets cut and money comes out. I forgot about that. You're right, and it's a racist, anti-immigrant thing that Stoker did. Oh yeah, big time. And he makes a point to say that, oh, there's British pounds in there now, but it's the only film that actually has that in it. Wow, yeah.

Speaker 3: 50:50

That's insane. Yeah, yeah, not a lot of movies actually have like the hairy palms or other stuff like that. No, these are all things that when we open up our Christopher Lee tribute Dark Ride yeah, with flailing crosses and laser beam zapping, that's going to be the merchandise. Yeah, with flailing crosses and laser beam zapping, that's going to be the merchandise. Yeah, we'll have our Dracula stomach money dispenser.

Speaker 1: 51:12

We'll have our hairy palm, our.

Speaker 2: 51:14

Dracula stomach press penny machine.

Speaker 3: 51:17

Yeah, press penny machine and then, hairy palmed, like you know, mittens that you can buy. You know the obvious Dracula teeth, the cheapy plastic, nicolas Cage, dracula teeth, you know, all right.

Speaker 2: 51:36

This is a good place to stop.

Speaker 3: 51:37

We are totally digging ourselves into a shallow grave here folks. So on that note, I'm Peter Overstreet.

Speaker 2: 51:44

And I'm Kelly McCuffin and you've been listening to the Lowdown on the Plus. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Lowdown on the Plus Up. If you have, please tell your friends where you found us, and if you haven't, we can pretend this never happened and need not speak of it again. For a lot more thoughts on theme parks and related stuff, check out my writing for BoardWalkTimes at BoardWalkTimesnet. Feel free to reach out to Pete and I on our Lowdown on the Plus Up Facebook group or send us a message directly at comments at lowdown-plus-upcom. We really want to hear about how you'd plus these attractions up and read some of your ideas on the show.

Speaker 1: 52:57

Our theme music is Goblin Tinker Soldier Spy by Kevin MacLeod at incompetechcom. We'll have a new episode out real soon. Why? Because we like you. You fools you.

Speaker 3: 53:21

Pathetic spineless fools you drink, then you drink it. You drink the filth, no.